tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post1542926512909457007..comments2024-03-21T08:00:48.696-07:00Comments on No Shortage of Dreams: As Gemini Was to an Apollo Lunar Landing by 1970, So Apollo Would Be to a Permanent Lunar Base in 1980 (1968)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-64545861576923884632017-03-17T00:15:56.249-07:002017-03-17T00:15:56.249-07:00Recall that this was 1968 - though Murray, et al, ...Recall that this was 1968 - though Murray, et al, wrote about the possibility of lunar polar ice as early as 1962, we didn't know that it existed until thirty years later. Similarly, we didn't have good maps of the lunar poles until the 1990s because no spacecraft orbited over the poles during the Apollo era. We suspected the existence of lava tubes, it's true, but didn't have David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-54617250065064760732017-02-09T22:20:33.174-07:002017-02-09T22:20:33.174-07:00Well they studied upgrading the Saturn-1 along wit...Well they studied upgrading the Saturn-1 along with the Saturn-V and INT all along the same time period. As 'conservative' a design kludge as the tank-cluster Saturn-1 was it would have been remarkably easy to fit SRBs for improved performance. Since the Jupiter and Redstone 'tank' making lines were fully paid off and stretching was straightforward and "easy" the only Randy Campbellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-40097460255945613582017-02-08T18:43:53.542-07:002017-02-08T18:43:53.542-07:00What strikes me about this is that planners wanted...What strikes me about this is that planners wanted to build a MoonBase near the equator, on the surface. Given that the residents would have almost no accessible volatiles, no solar energy for a fortnight, and continuous exposer to cosmic rays and solar flares. ¿Why did not the planners locate the Lunar Base above 85 degrees North or South, in a LavaTube, over a nautical mile underground, near Walabiohttp://intactwiki.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-20439652227813355842017-02-07T21:37:14.371-07:002017-02-07T21:37:14.371-07:00That is so funny. I focused on the lunar and Gemin...That is so funny. I focused on the lunar and Gemini parts of FOREVER YOUNG. Looks like I need to read the rest!<br /><br />If I'd known that story I wouldn't have been quite as embarrassed by my incoherence. But it's never to late to feel less embarrassed because of new info. Thanks!<br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-59502003267121679942017-02-07T21:34:52.267-07:002017-02-07T21:34:52.267-07:00The 14-day stay would likely have begun at lunar d...The 14-day stay would likely have begun at lunar dawn and ended by lunar dusk. There was no plan to operate the cylindrical LPM habitat after its first use, so lunar night could have its way with it. However, some of the tools, rovers, LFUs, etc., would have had to withstand one or more lunar nights. I think they might've been made resistant - I'm thinking of the ALSEPs here, which David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-11272482456676983212017-02-07T21:22:51.082-07:002017-02-07T21:22:51.082-07:00Glad my Saturn IB post was of interest!
Had we a ...Glad my Saturn IB post was of interest!<br /><br />Had we a robust "Skylab"-based station program in the 1970s (and 1980s?), we'd certainly have seen lots of Saturn IB flights. Thing even had a respectable cargo volume. Might've needed upgrades if it was to deliver cargo to a high-inclination station, though.<br /><br />I'm not familiar with Saturn IB reuse schemes. Were David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-46759764146617162092017-02-06T01:10:43.172-07:002017-02-06T01:10:43.172-07:00One thing I have wondered, what was the plan to de...One thing I have wondered, what was the plan to deal with lunar noon and lunar night? The lunar surface gets too hot and too cold, especially for 1960's technology. How would the shelter actual work to remedy the temperature extremes?pir34https://www.blogger.com/profile/08577202911000291121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-41193296657337200012017-02-05T18:06:31.520-07:002017-02-05T18:06:31.520-07:00Oh don't get me wrong big boosters have their ...Oh don't get me wrong big boosters have their place and time but timing is everything and more often than not you actually "need" less on a regular basis so it would make sense to have something that can be used for both, (or really multiple) lift cases rather than trying to 'de-rate' an HLV on a regular basis.<br /><br />Pretty much the Saturn-V Interim Launch Vehicle Randy Campbellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-82634573067010998532017-02-05T15:20:49.794-07:002017-02-05T15:20:49.794-07:00Your lunch story reminds me of this passage from F...Your lunch story reminds me of this passage from Forever Young: A Lifetime of Adventure in Air and Space, by John W Young (with James R. Hansen):<br /><br />I took a train to California and reported aboard the Laws on 13 June 1952. The ship was moored in San Diego Bay. My first assignment was to pay respects to my commanding officer, Commander Willard Young "W.Y." Howell. Born in Utah, Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15144591082210666420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-8238038578707649932017-02-05T11:16:47.672-07:002017-02-05T11:16:47.672-07:00Randy:
I'm a big fan of big rockets. I still ...Randy:<br /><br />I'm a big fan of big rockets. I still talk to people who don;t dig 'em, so worry not. :-) They can put a lot of stuff up in one go. That's an economical approach, provided you have enough big stuff you want to launch. Say, a 100-person space station. Plus they are relatively simple compared with, say, a Space Shuttle. And, they can toss small stuff a long way fast. David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-86873464527149220352017-02-05T10:59:55.087-07:002017-02-05T10:59:55.087-07:00Phillip:
After Challenger, Young was removed as h...Phillip:<br /><br />After Challenger, Young was removed as head of the Astronaut Office and made a "Special Assistant to the Director" of Johnson Space Center. He had expressed opinions regarding NASA's level of concern for astronaut safety that NASA deemed unacceptable. His demotion - intended really to show him the door - was a signal to one and all that NASA would take down even David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-6727642292810678592017-02-05T08:05:48.695-07:002017-02-05T08:05:48.695-07:00I had the good fortune to attend a talk given by J...I had the good fortune to attend a talk given by John Young. I guess it was about nine years ago. In the Q&A, an audience member asked if a charge could be applied to the space suits to get the lunar dust off them. Mr. Young said he brought that up in a meeting and was kicked out. He made that joke a couple times. As I understand it, on the third day the grit that had accumulated when they Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15144591082210666420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-69075183445135732362017-02-04T20:31:51.877-07:002017-02-04T20:31:51.877-07:00Read that and generally agree unless the "POD...Read that and generally agree unless the "POD" (as they say in alt-history :) ) is quite a bit early once you have the Apollo we got, (rather than that originally planned) you are very limited in where you go from there. And we did not choose wisely, which is a given since we didn't "choose" to go the Moon "wisely", or into orbit, or pretty much anything from theRandy Campbellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-38966868907779797772017-02-02T20:14:34.336-07:002017-02-02T20:14:34.336-07:00I comment on this briefly in this post -
http:/...I comment on this briefly in this post - <br /><br />http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/2016/01/thinking-big-traffic-model-for-nasa.html<br /><br />I'm curious - how would you define "a proper and self-supporting foundation"?<br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-62867230802966950642017-02-02T20:01:08.301-07:002017-02-02T20:01:08.301-07:00Hi, Michael:
Thank you kindly. I got the material...Hi, Michael:<br /><br />Thank you kindly. I got the material this post is based on while doing a summer Fellowship at NASA Goddard. While there, I got to know Paul Lowman, the first geologist NASA hired (in 1959). He was a member of the Single Site Sub-Group. He had masses of stuff in his files and in his basement, and he got in the habit of unearthing documents on topics he thought I should knowDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-81275332289615534892017-02-02T19:52:50.831-07:002017-02-02T19:52:50.831-07:00"Go Big or stay home" But we had a speci..."Go Big or stay home" But we had a specific goal and a direct focus on that goal and only that goal. Unfortunately, while that worked for the Manhattan Project going to the Moon wasn't as "simple" in the follow on as developing a weapon of mass destruction and really going into space on a regular and economic basis is FAR more difficult. It requires one to lay out a properRandy Campbellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-34925853248883860572017-02-02T11:35:40.303-07:002017-02-02T11:35:40.303-07:00Great article as always! I wonder if the working g...Great article as always! I wonder if the working group considered potential blocking items like suit development. The AL7B probably could not have maintained integrity from the abrasion of 10 - 20 EVAs.Michael Kramerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02058822156622197387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-19928941039042269892017-02-02T09:42:07.482-07:002017-02-02T09:42:07.482-07:00I agree that the moon is important all by itself. ...I agree that the moon is important all by itself. I think what you are saying here is that we shouldn't view the moon as a place to build and launch spacecraft bound for other worlds. I agree with that, too. I think people become confused about the savings in propellants and spacecraft mass one can accrue by launching from the moon. Sure, one can save propellants and mass, but one first has David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-89299961362067328782017-02-02T09:32:53.666-07:002017-02-02T09:32:53.666-07:00Thank you for pointing out my error! I've corr...Thank you for pointing out my error! I've corrected it and tweaked all the caption text a bit.<br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-47836376843623172022017-02-02T07:37:11.085-07:002017-02-02T07:37:11.085-07:00Great blog! Very enjoyable read. It would have bee...Great blog! Very enjoyable read. It would have been wonderful to have a permanent moon base. One correction though, Jim Irwin didn't fly on Apollo 12,he flew on Apollo 15. Al Bean flew to the surface with Pete Conrad. Dick Gordon was the CM pilot. mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14491574408063208120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-18288826866532426252017-02-02T03:08:16.494-07:002017-02-02T03:08:16.494-07:00In regard to the Moon and lunar bases, a mistake c...In regard to the Moon and lunar bases, a mistake consistently made is to think of them as a sort of stepping stone to some other destination in the solar system, Mars in particular. A lunar base would provide valuable experience in long term human operations on the surface of another world, which could be applicable to other bodies in the solar system as well, but the Moon has to be viewed as a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com