tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post6913108519389112695..comments2024-03-21T08:00:48.696-07:00Comments on No Shortage of Dreams: Flyby's Last Gasp: North American Rockwell's S-IIB Interplanetary Booster (1968)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-18996961678027491622017-09-03T14:32:46.393-07:002017-09-03T14:32:46.393-07:00Phil:
From an economic, scientific, and engineeri...Phil:<br /><br />From an economic, scientific, and engineering standpoint, it would have made sense to incrementally develop Apollo. The trouble is, the political environment - which ideally reflects society's interests, but as often as not fails to do so - was against it. Not because space was especially costly, but because it was highly visible - an easy target. <br /><br />Engineers like David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-37652808198699110692017-09-02T14:39:07.835-07:002017-09-02T14:39:07.835-07:00Some suggestions of what we could have accomplishe...Some suggestions of what we could have accomplished had we continued with the Apollo/Saturn hardware:<br /><br />Amazing Stories of the Space Age, by Rod Pyle, says that "It is estimated that the same money [spent on the shuttle program] could have paid for six launches of the Saturn V each year, with two of those flights being lunar missions."<br /><br />This is an excerpt from MichaelPhil Parknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-90536387077762364672017-08-16T07:57:28.567-07:002017-08-16T07:57:28.567-07:00A:
Nixon's staff tacked on a fourth, even mor...A:<br /><br />Nixon's staff tacked on a fourth, even more "relaxed" option - that's described in the foreword to the September 1969 Space Task Group Report to Nixon, which was mostly written by NASA Administrator Tom Paine. Paine's three options had the same program, more or less, but with different timetables, and Nixon didn't want to endorse Mars, moon bases, and all David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-43338658856698304892017-08-16T02:23:07.282-07:002017-08-16T02:23:07.282-07:00My parents wedding was on September 20, 1975 and I...My parents wedding was on September 20, 1975 and I've born in 1982 - according to von Braun August 1969 plan, man landing on Mars was to happen on August 15, 1982 - exactly 35 years ago this day. That was the "all out", Apollo-like option. <br />The "relaxed budget" option had the Mars landing happening in spring 1986 - and we got STS-51L instead. :( Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-17818146199476399282017-07-30T22:16:11.431-07:002017-07-30T22:16:11.431-07:00No need to apologize, constructive criticism is we...No need to apologize, constructive criticism is well taken. I think the last time anyone got a blank check from the government was when Roosevelt told the Army Air Force to set their own production target for 1944. It just feels like a blank check compared to tightness of the NASA budget afterwards. The 1960s were not just a great time for human spaceflight, it was a great time for robotic pir34https://www.blogger.com/profile/08577202911000291121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-48688334683179374472017-07-30T11:10:10.921-07:002017-07-30T11:10:10.921-07:00(Ran a little long - this is part 2 of my 2-part r...(Ran a little long - this is part 2 of my 2-part reply to pir34, 30 July 2017 01:00)<br /><br />I like to imagine what NASA might have accomplished in the 1970s with an annual budget of ~$4 billion/year and Apollo-based technology (that is, not major new development such as Shuttle). We would certainly have seen a series of increasingly complex and productive Skylabs. Imagine Skylab following a David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-10871141378074860512017-07-30T11:08:34.609-07:002017-07-30T11:08:34.609-07:00I'm going to correct a couple of what I percei...I'm going to correct a couple of what I perceive to be misconceptions in your comment before I respond to it. I don't meant to be critical.<br /><br />NASA did not have a blank check during Apollo. JFK and LBJ (but especially JFK) were very conscious of the costs of spaceflight and were eager to keep those costs under control. Early efforts to tack on projects not directly related to the David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-37267825395508457312017-07-30T10:09:19.976-07:002017-07-30T10:09:19.976-07:00Hi, Ocean:
I don't think the Newspace folks i...Hi, Ocean:<br /><br />I don't think the Newspace folks in general read a lot of history; certainly nothing as obscure as this study. In any case, if they do draw from history, they don't (as far as I've seen) cite what they read. No, I think they are doing as many before them have done - reinventing the wheel. This would be fine, except it means that they cannot draw upon the lessons David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-33093396353257230982017-07-30T01:00:18.275-07:002017-07-30T01:00:18.275-07:00If NASA did not go towards the Space Shuttle and a...If NASA did not go towards the Space Shuttle and a focus on earth observation post Apollo, it makes you wonder what of all its ambitious plans it could really afford. The progression Moon 1960s to Flyby 1970s to Mars landing 1980s is a new concept for me, but it makes sense. I also remember though the plans for a permanent Moon base in the 1970s. You have also shared the plans about permanent pir34https://www.blogger.com/profile/08577202911000291121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-27175420882975890152017-07-29T21:54:37.251-07:002017-07-29T21:54:37.251-07:00I can't help thinking that Elon Musk and the d...I can't help thinking that Elon Musk and the design folks at SpaceX must have read some of this report and research that led to it. The idea of the refueling tankers for ITS seem like they were taken right from this report or from the research that produced it. Oceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02711567987214018993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-31742841086844514012017-07-29T21:46:57.139-07:002017-07-29T21:46:57.139-07:00Phil:
I got the 200K figure from the study. Sea-l...Phil:<br /><br />I got the 200K figure from the study. Sea-level thrust was closer to 100K, so perhaps they shot down the middle. <br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-69892348370763213292017-07-29T18:26:44.442-07:002017-07-29T18:26:44.442-07:00I thought the J-2 produced 232,000 pounds of thrus...I thought the J-2 produced 232,000 pounds of thrust (in a vacuum).<br /><br />Please allow me an aside: There's a scene in the Stephen Baxter novel voyage in which a crew is told their Skylab mission will take place in lunar orbit. The commander says this is nonsense because the J-2S wasn't going to be ready for a while, and thus they couldn't be flying to a lunar lunar orbit station.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15144591082210666420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-52519765797884103182017-07-28T07:15:33.004-07:002017-07-28T07:15:33.004-07:00I suspect that the added LOX would exceed the stru...I suspect that the added LOX would exceed the structural limits of the S-IVB. Also, I wonder about the effects of a partial cargo of LOX moving around in the LH2 tank. And - could it be pumped out of the tank without some sort of ullage system that would cause it to settle but could complicate transfer after the S-IVB tanker docked with the S-IIB boost stage/piloted flyby combination?<br /><br />David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-27517509386777755812017-07-28T07:05:43.438-07:002017-07-28T07:05:43.438-07:00Here is another take: On the SIVb Tanker one, why ...Here is another take: On the SIVb Tanker one, why not load LOX into the empty Hydrogen tank to the limit of what could be lifted? Boil off should be lower than the LOX tank, since the hydrogen tank was designed for a liquid 200 degrees colder, and more volume could be boosted to orbit.<br /><br />JimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com