tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post6149909671806882815..comments2024-03-21T08:00:48.696-07:00Comments on No Shortage of Dreams: George Landwehr von Pragenau's Quest for a Stronger, Safer Space ShuttleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-38796409857423565042021-11-13T13:36:58.286-07:002021-11-13T13:36:58.286-07:00The "orbiter on top" has one big issue -...The "orbiter on top" has one big issue - namely, it is incredibly unstable. It is like an arrow with the feathers up front, so it tends to flip if not counteracted. The X-37 needed to be placed inside of an fairing to prevent that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00350812173667351396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-33343795002966722252021-11-13T13:34:23.285-07:002021-11-13T13:34:23.285-07:00You know how the Shuttle could've been even be...You know how the Shuttle could've been even better? If it had more things to do, and more orbiters were built. The Shuttle could in theory fly 24x a year (limited by ET production), but only reached this limit once. The turnaround was long, for sure - but only having 4 orbiters at a time and limited number of payloads was the real problem for flightrate. An earlier station construction and Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00350812173667351396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-32507138237004107892018-05-20T10:49:01.719-07:002018-05-20T10:49:01.719-07:00Robert:
I missed the heads-up attitude comment, I...Robert:<br /><br />I missed the heads-up attitude comment, I'm afraid. I could be mistaken, but both vehicles were restricted to a heads-down attitude - or, at least, that's the only way they were flown. Perhaps someone could jump in here and add some details.<br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-42395094176188188312018-05-18T15:53:16.923-07:002018-05-18T15:53:16.923-07:00Wait, wait, Buran could fly in a heads up attitude...Wait, wait, Buran could fly in a heads up attitude? Huh, I never knew that.<br /><br />Could our Space Shuttle have done that?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13674812220136996835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-29717018773191607382017-01-21T12:35:17.462-07:002017-01-21T12:35:17.462-07:00I recommend you look up my 1995 NASA-published boo...I recommend you look up my 1995 NASA-published book MIR HARDWARE HERITAGE, which I wrote while working for NASA. You can find the PDF online on a couple of NASA sites. It will fill you in on the Soyuz Orbital Modules and large modules attached to Salyut 7, as well as many other details of the Soviet/Russian space programs through 1994. <br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-22448803173059977082017-01-19T17:22:51.407-07:002017-01-19T17:22:51.407-07:00Some mistakes as fas as Soyuz goes. The orbital Mo...Some mistakes as fas as Soyuz goes. The orbital Modeule cant be left behind as part of a spaxcestation as it doesnt have an second arilock s if it is left in a station it will be useless. The Chinese copy of the Soyuz on the other hand (Shenzu) has this cappability and the Chinese used to left the orbital module in space for testing various technologies. As for the Salyut 7 the thing that was Γιώργος Παναγάκηςhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04097723156471477730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-54913228709651130852016-11-06T13:01:51.161-07:002016-11-06T13:01:51.161-07:00JK:
Assuming that humans go to Mars anytime soon,...JK:<br /><br />Assuming that humans go to Mars anytime soon, Orion (or a derivative) would serve as the ferry for transporting the flight crew to the Earth-Mars transfer spacecraft and as the Earth-atmosphere reentry vehicle at end-of-mission. Depending on the mission profile selected, it might have other uses, too. Will we launch humans to Mars anytime soon? Perhaps to Mars orbit, where David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-24978440064579457932016-11-06T09:50:53.338-07:002016-11-06T09:50:53.338-07:00Thank you. I found it it looks really cool. Funny,...Thank you. I found it it looks really cool. Funny, how some things never change. NASA is billing the Orion as the Space Craft that will take us to Mars. It won't do much more than orbit the moon on its own but then the general public I'd pretty clueless about what's happening in space. I'm remembering how the Shuttle was hyped-up showing it building giant solar power stations to Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09342961462271564757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-45300011768082585342016-11-05T22:52:53.982-07:002016-11-05T22:52:53.982-07:00JK:
I plan a new Shuttle II post soon. For now, i...JK:<br /><br />I plan a new Shuttle II post soon. For now, if you google "Beyond Apollo Shuttle II" you should find a post I did on my WIRED blog. There are pictures there of a model of JSC's Shuttle II concept. I have since learned more about the Langley Shuttle II, the design of which is better known and was favored over the JSC Shuttle II. The JSC Shuttle II is sexier, in my David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-17040691364593579612016-11-05T22:27:31.214-07:002016-11-05T22:27:31.214-07:00EE:
I had forgotten about that. Yes, the Soyuz Or...EE:<br /><br />I had forgotten about that. Yes, the Soyuz Orbital Module was left behind at least once, I think on Salyut 7 near the end of its career. It had to be discarded before anything could dock at the port where it was docked, so it couldn't become a permanent station module. I wondered for a time whether leaving it behind was a test of a contingency mode - what if the station dockingDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-74608673718723146922016-11-05T22:14:06.989-07:002016-11-05T22:14:06.989-07:00Anon:
I liked Buran's automated mode and Ener...Anon:<br /><br />I liked Buran's automated mode and Energia's "built-in" Shuttle-C capability. My impression is that it was not as fragile as our Shuttle, though since we only saw two flights, one with Buran and one without, who knows what failures modes were lurking in the design? <br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-86990186650186011702016-11-04T15:33:04.537-07:002016-11-04T15:33:04.537-07:00Excellent article as always. I always imagined a ...Excellent article as always. I always imagined a more radical re-arrangement of the Shuttle stack, with the SSMEs relocated to a seperate re-entry module at the base of the ET and the orbiter on top, well away from the SRBs and upwind of any debris coming off the ET. Such an arrangement would also have given NASA the option of replacing the Orbiter with a simple single use fairing and upper Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-7851457950725935752016-11-04T10:52:47.942-07:002016-11-04T10:52:47.942-07:00Where there any proposed fixes that would not have...Where there any proposed fixes that would not have required a major overhaul of the launch pads and other support facilities? The closest thing I can think of was the Shuttle-C. It's a fix in at your not flying people in it and had added value in being able to haul a load more into LEO and your not flying it back. It always seemed to me that it was one of the best lost-opportunities of the Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09342961462271564757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-4429540353127803592016-11-04T10:04:38.006-07:002016-11-04T10:04:38.006-07:00I liked Energiya Buran. Fly heads up to ease foam ...I liked Energiya Buran. Fly heads up to ease foam strikes, with no oxygen "ramp: nearby--and LFBs.<br /><br />I still do like side-mount, in that I don't trust top mount spaceplanes--pitch loads, bending moments. Side mount allows wider wingspan--and aerobrake disks.<br />https://www.aiaa.org/uploadedfiles/about-aiaa/history_and_heritage/final_space_shuttle_launches/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-71889483771356385362016-11-04T00:52:03.415-07:002016-11-04T00:52:03.415-07:00P.S. did you ever start a Patreon? I'd be glad...P.S. did you ever start a Patreon? I'd be glad to donate.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126763628758390354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-74773151959297203832016-11-04T00:50:26.328-07:002016-11-04T00:50:26.328-07:00Love your writing as always, David - I have a some...Love your writing as always, David - I have a somewhat tangential question. Soyuz orbital modules have the capacity to be left behind as an additional station module, why do you think this isn't commonly done? Is it a maintenance issue?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126763628758390354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-44655800028655081872016-11-02T08:48:31.454-07:002016-11-02T08:48:31.454-07:00JK:
This is a complex issue, or set of issues. Sh...JK:<br /><br />This is a complex issue, or set of issues. Shuttle began as a reusable piloted transport meant to be augmented by large expendable rockets. Most everyone assumed that Saturn rockets would do the heavy lifting. As we moved away from that, we compromised safety and added new risk factors. <br /><br />So, a big Shuttle Orbiter - part of a fully reusable system - packed full of cargo David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-86672227624165435402016-11-02T08:20:47.868-07:002016-11-02T08:20:47.868-07:00Robert:
I think we need to start at the start - w...Robert:<br /><br />I think we need to start at the start - we aren't going to get preferential treatment for NASA until we make people more aware of what it does and what it could do. Hence the need for blogs like this (ahem) and all the STEM efforts afoot across the country. <br /><br />Critical in building awareness is presentation of real information and realistic plans. So much of what weDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-90789669407611152902016-11-02T05:16:03.635-07:002016-11-02T05:16:03.635-07:00David, I'm interested in what you have to say ...David, I'm interested in what you have to say about the escape systems that considered and rejected in the early phases of designing the shuttle. I still shake my head at the fact that 14 people had to die get it into our collective heads that space capsule is and always was the safest approach to manned space-flight. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09342961462271564757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-51345709538498727532016-10-29T19:28:26.086-07:002016-10-29T19:28:26.086-07:00I'm not sure I can add much more to your comme...I'm not sure I can add much more to your comment above. You summed up my feelings quite succinctly about how we could have invested wisely early on in the shuttle program to make it robust over the long-term. I don't believe there will be a viable solution to the challenges NASA faces budget-wise as long as funding is a political football. I'd love to see NASA separated from the Robert Karmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07085698927157870723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-52314677932485251982016-10-29T13:05:55.683-07:002016-10-29T13:05:55.683-07:00You are welcome. I cannot help but wonder how many...You are welcome. I cannot help but wonder how many lives and how much money we might have saved if we had made adequate investments in Shuttle improvements over the years. If we meant to keep the Shuttle flying well into the 21st century, we should have sought to mitigate known frailties in the design. The entire booster stack was makeshift - a solution to the Nixon Administration's ardent David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-2922782904080456142016-10-29T11:16:04.457-07:002016-10-29T11:16:04.457-07:00Well written, bittersweet but fascinating article....Well written, bittersweet but fascinating article. Thank you for this.Kevin Spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15595811958799021649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-62925467350933242882016-10-29T10:49:58.299-07:002016-10-29T10:49:58.299-07:00It does, though of course the various components w...It does, though of course the various components would play different roles. For example, the hammer-headed LH2 tank in von Pragenau's 1982 patent design was the shroud holding large-diameter payloads and upper stages in the Titan IV. I suspect you know that. But the resemblance is striking.<br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-17636460779698537352016-10-29T10:26:25.602-07:002016-10-29T10:26:25.602-07:00Looks like a Titan IV!Looks like a Titan IV!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13167177202623543844noreply@blogger.com