tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post6248471925609653675..comments2024-03-21T08:00:48.696-07:00Comments on No Shortage of Dreams: NASA Johnson Space Center's Shuttle II (1988)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-55526323145936949662023-01-09T17:31:04.735-07:002023-01-09T17:31:04.735-07:00Tim: I don't have as many technical details on...Tim: I don't have as many technical details on this concept as I'd like — basically, I have pictures of the model and some fairly detailed captions for those pictures on separate (though attached) sheets. The captions say that "most" LOX would be in an integral tank, which might imply that some would be carried in the over-wing tanks, though in the captions referring to the David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-26561550441992591052023-01-08T20:01:31.528-07:002023-01-08T20:01:31.528-07:00So It seems Shuttle II would have half the payload...So It seems Shuttle II would have half the payload capacity as Shuttle 1. I guess big USAF spy sats would go on the Titan IV. Also, all of the oxygen was carried internally? timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14735862910919849731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-49836573810632348952020-02-03T19:01:07.327-07:002020-02-03T19:01:07.327-07:00Bill:
My apologies for the long delay in respondi...Bill:<br /><br />My apologies for the long delay in responding. I've been neglecting the blog due to health issues, but now I'm back!<br /><br />That's a good question - they are not obvious. I think the STBEs are best seen in the sixth image from the top - the one showing Shuttle II in launch position (vertical). One is visible next to the body flap (it's silver-gray). You can David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-24558975319129824992019-03-07T18:05:20.791-07:002019-03-07T18:05:20.791-07:00Thank you for this post. I probably missed it, bu...Thank you for this post. I probably missed it, but where exactly were the separable booster engines in the launch configuration? <br /><br />I worked on Shuttle most of my career, and would dearly loved to have worked on a successor.Bill Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06588255789050391156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-67962619483170344022018-05-01T22:23:12.856-07:002018-05-01T22:23:12.856-07:00Robert:
I think that it would have been a little ...Robert:<br /><br />I think that it would have been a little smaller - the fuselage diameter certainly seems to be less than that of the Shuttle Orbiter.<br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-22907193561931786322018-05-01T14:14:51.437-07:002018-05-01T14:14:51.437-07:00In the article you mention that the Shuttle II wou...In the article you mention that the Shuttle II would have been a quarter of the weight of the original shuttle. Would it be safe to assume that Shuttle would have been roughly the same size as any of the Shuttle Orbiters?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13674812220136996835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-84184196898448675102017-08-02T06:51:19.308-07:002017-08-02T06:51:19.308-07:00Michel:
Bravo! These are excellent. Thanks!
dsfp...Michel:<br /><br />Bravo! These are excellent. Thanks!<br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-71183900262979348212017-08-02T01:56:55.764-07:002017-08-02T01:56:55.764-07:00On SD-HLLV try those PDF
http://ota.fas.org/repor...On SD-HLLV try those PDF<br /><br />http://ota.fas.org/reports/8826.pdf<br />https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19880011804.pdf<br />https://www.aiaa.org/uploadedfiles/about-aiaa/history_and_heritage/final_space_shuttle_launches/shuttlevariationsfinalaiaa.pdf<br /><br />https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/361842main_15%20-%20Augustine%20Sidemount%20Final.pdf<br /><br />washttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00089303950984529995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-61563941089255512202017-02-20T05:45:41.860-07:002017-02-20T05:45:41.860-07:00I am actually talking about two different images, ...I am actually talking about two different images, one on page 114 of the Pioneering The Space Frontier report and one on Encyclopedia Astronautica's entry on the Dual Keel station. I think that there is some confusion on this matter, this particular configuration reported being either an X-30 concept or the configuration of NASP itself, although the most common image to be found on media is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-74506818142028907202017-02-19T19:49:16.063-07:002017-02-19T19:49:16.063-07:00There were several NASP designs - all conceptual. ...There were several NASP designs - all conceptual. Of course, the image could be from the artist's imagination (Bob McCall painted many - perhaps most - of the image in PIONEEERING THE SPACE FRONTIER). I'm handicapped because I'm not sure which images you are looking at. Do you have page numbers?<br /><br />I agree about the acceptance of risk - lots of wishful thinking in the Shuttle David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-81667502572472537522017-02-19T11:30:34.234-07:002017-02-19T11:30:34.234-07:00I see, I am fully aware of NASP. but wasn't aw...I see, I am fully aware of NASP. but wasn't aware that this was one of the proposed designs for it, its similarity with Orion III was such that when I first saw that image I thought that it was just some artist's imagination, just to fill the picture, not something actually proposed. However, seeing the design of Shuttle II on this post, I understood that it was the first space plane Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-2207008160262200162017-02-19T08:43:16.733-07:002017-02-19T08:43:16.733-07:00OK, I see what you're saying. Please pardon my...OK, I see what you're saying. Please pardon my confusion. I think the thing to keep in mind is that Shuttle kept NASA piloted spaceflight alive. A continuation of Apollo would have done the same thing (much as an continuation of Soyuz has kept piloted spaceflight alive in Russia), but Nixon wanted the JFK/LBJ Apollo Program gone for a host of reasons, none of which in retrospect were very David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-39820470223593971792017-02-19T04:31:39.108-07:002017-02-19T04:31:39.108-07:00I agree with the aforementioned about the shuttle,...I agree with the aforementioned about the shuttle, but as it was finally conceived, that is as a stand-alone system, without the space infrastructure it was originally intended to support, it was essentially a dead-end project. It got some real purpose and destination only when it begun flights to Mir, but this was of course not its original purpose and had world politics been different, that is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-36503497459992977682017-02-18T18:54:53.212-07:002017-02-18T18:54:53.212-07:00I have attended very few conventions like the ISDC...I have attended very few conventions like the ISDC because they so rarely get things right. I know they can be fun, but they remind me of science fiction conventions (which also can be fun, but they have no pretensions about being real). Anyway - by 2000, they really had no excuse for expecting an advanced Shuttle by ISS Assembly Complete. They could have shown the X-38 lifting-body lifeboat David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-6091452280849009572017-02-18T14:09:34.365-07:002017-02-18T14:09:34.365-07:00I remember seeing a poster on this at ISDC 2000, i...I remember seeing a poster on this at ISDC 2000, in Tuscon, Arizona. For the Present, i.e the year 2000, they showed the familiar space Shuttle visiting the Space Station as it was in 2000. For the intermediate future, i.e. 2016, they had a version of the Shuttle II visiting a completed ISS. For a more distant future, i.e. 2032, they had a copy of Robert McCall's famous "2001: A Space jmcenanlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08967429978183072891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-13239367802609694272017-02-17T21:31:17.570-07:002017-02-17T21:31:17.570-07:00I've not responded sooner because I'm not ...I've not responded sooner because I'm not clear on what you mean. The Shuttle's purpose evolved over time. <br /><br />I'll make one comment - Apollo was impermanent, so NASA's piloted spaceflight centers sought a means of becoming a permanent part of the NASA budget. Reusability made the Shuttle a handy way to keep the piloted program alive. Once ISS was established, that David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-79502902197986834472017-02-17T21:24:08.078-07:002017-02-17T21:24:08.078-07:00I'm afraid I don't have much on this topic...I'm afraid I don't have much on this topic in my files. I have some stuff on Saturn V variants, and a few odds and ends on Shuttle-derived vehicles, but nothing I could turn into a decent post. Do you have access to SD-HLLV design documents? Or could you point me toward SD-HLLV documents? I'd need serious study documents, not PAO stuff or news articles (though PAO stuff/news articles David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-48684607401214938792017-02-17T11:49:15.672-07:002017-02-17T11:49:15.672-07:00One request I'd like to make if I may.
I'd...One request I'd like to make if I may.<br />I'd like you to do a series on advocates of shuttle-derived Heavy Lift Launch Vehicles<br />SD-HLLVs.<br /><br />A good title might be 'The Other Hidden Figures"<br /><br />Folks have pushed for SD-HLLVs for many years.<br />ALS/NLS, Magnum/BMDO launcher, CaLV, Ares V, DIRECT/SLS<br /><br />It seems these guys never get any respect.<br Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-24879853412094561372017-02-15T05:27:21.310-07:002017-02-15T05:27:21.310-07:00The US Shuttle program, as it actually unfolded, i...The US Shuttle program, as it actually unfolded, is the perfect example of something which instead of being used as a tool in order to achieve some other purpose (regardless of whether it should have been developed in the first place), became an end in itself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-62273010395509679562017-02-13T10:51:29.070-07:002017-02-13T10:51:29.070-07:00Thanks, Rod.
dsfpThanks, Rod. <br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-185473997611289212017-02-13T10:50:22.924-07:002017-02-13T10:50:22.924-07:00I don't know what country you live in - here i...I don't know what country you live in - here in the US we have a Constitutional crisis on our hands. I care about what happens to my country. Involved, responsible American citizens are doing what they can. I spread information that I judge to be significant.<br /><br />If you are from another country and our politics don't interest you, you might want to unfollow me and just check the David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-334277471912824662017-02-13T09:12:34.411-07:002017-02-13T09:12:34.411-07:00Hi, David,
Great blog and all but I'm not her...Hi, David,<br /><br />Great blog and all but I'm not here to talk about that. I'm here to talka bout Twitter.<br /><br />In future, could you PLEASE refrain from political retweets? Or at least create a separate account for those? Marco Ramiushttp://www.reddit.com/u/MrToddWilkins/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-45551833722561150022017-02-11T17:49:20.831-07:002017-02-11T17:49:20.831-07:00Another fine and engaging article about something ...Another fine and engaging article about something of which I had only glancing awareness. Thanks David.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07415741353775413380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-56523281523187717782017-02-11T11:21:06.414-07:002017-02-11T11:21:06.414-07:00Jeff:
Meant to add - the engineless orbiter remin...Jeff:<br /><br />Meant to add - the engineless orbiter reminds me of HOTOL. Not in terms of function, but it terms of shape.<br /><br />dsfpDavid S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6633940777526327846.post-70468103011781976352017-02-10T21:25:45.877-07:002017-02-10T21:25:45.877-07:00Shuttle evolved, though not as much as we'd ha...Shuttle evolved, though not as much as we'd have liked. We saw a lot of upgrades and improvements over the years. NASA pulled off some impressive Shuttle missions - Shuttle-Mir, though politically driven, saw the US Shuttle stand in for the scrapped Buran-Energiya, which was pretty cool. And, despite Columbia, we managed to launch and assemble much of the ISS. <br /><br />None of that was David S. F. Portreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15818906581595028816noreply@blogger.com